Legislature(1999 - 2000)
05/11/1999 05:35 PM Senate FIN
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE
May 11, 1999
5:35 PM
TAPES
SFC-99 # 133, Side A and Side B
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Torgerson convened the meeting at approximately
5:35 PM.
PRESENT Senator John Torgerson, Senator Loren Leman,
Senator Pete Kelly, Senator Randy Phillips, Senator Dave
Donley, Senator Lyda Green and Senator Al Adams were
present when the meeting convened. Senator Gary Wilken
arrived shortly thereafter and Senator Sean Parnell arrived
later.
Also Attending:
SENATOR KIM ELTON; REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT;
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING; ANNALEE MCCONNELL, Director,
Office of Management and Budget, Office of the Governor;
JACK KREINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst, Office of
Management and Budget, Office of the Governor; JUANITA
HENSLEY, Administrator, Division of Motor Vehicles,
Department of Administration; KAREN REHFELD, Director,
Division of Education Support Services, Department of
Education; EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section,
Education Support Services, Department of Education; ELMER
LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Health and Social Services; JANET CLARKE,
Director, Division of Administrative Services, Department
of Health and Social Services; GINA MACDONALD, Special
Projects Coordinator, Division of Mental Health and
Developmental Disabilities, Department of Health and Social
Services; DWIGHT PERKINS, Deputy Commissioner, Department
of Labor; REMOND HENDERSON, Director, Division of
Administrative Services, Department of Labor; DAVID
FINKLESTEIN, Alaskans for Medical Rights.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 97-MENTAL HEALTH; RECORDS; TREATMENT
The committee heard from the Department of Health and
Social Services. A committee substitute was adopted and
moved from committee.
SB 112-POSTSECONDARY CLASS FOR HIGH SCHOOL
The committee heard from the sponsor and the Department of
Education. The bill was held in committee.
HB 40-DEPT OF COMMERCE & RURAL DEVELOPMENT
The committee heard from the sponsor and the Department of
Education. A committee substitute was discussed but not
adopted and the bill was held in committee.
SB 113-FINANCES OF ALASKA HOUSING FINANCE CORP
This bill was not heard.
SB 94-MEDICAL USE OF MARIJUANA
The committee heard from the sponsor, the Department of
Health and Social Services and Alaskans for Medical Rights,
the sponsor of the ballot initiative. Seven amendments were
considered and six were adopted. The bill was reported out
of committee as amended.
HB 209-ALASKA SCIENCE & TECH FOUNDATION GRANTS
This bill was not heard due to teleconference difficulties.
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 97(HES)
"An Act relating to mental health services and
programs; relating to liability for payment for mental
health evaluation and treatment services; and
providing for an effective date."
This was the second hearing for this bill in the Senate
Finance Committee.
GINA MACDONALD, Special Projects Coordinator, Division of
Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities, Department of
Health and Social Services explained the new version of SB
97, 1-LS0545/K 4/30/99. She told the committee that the
committee substitute represented the efforts of the Alaska
State Hospital and Nursing Home Association, the Department
of Health and Social Services, the Disability Law Center,
the Alaska Mental Health Board and the Alaska Mental Health
Trust Authority. Those efforts clarified the intent of the
bill and set out the practices and procedures involved in
establishing eligibility and providing the services. The
committee substitute consists primarily of language changes
and is a consensus among all involved stakeholders,
according to Gina Macdonald. She gave an example of the
language clarifications using AS 47.30.910(a), which, in
the original version of the bill, stated: ".the
patient.shall pay or contribute to the charges for the
care, transportation, and treatment of the patient when the
patient is hospitalized.." The CS deletes "or contribute"
in order to clarify the intent of the parties involved and
to simply stipulate that the patient shall pay the charges
for care.
Co-Chair John Torgerson noted that Senator Lyda Green's
earlier questions on the bill had been answered with
changes made in this committee substitute. Senator Lyda
Green stated that she was now comfortable with the bill.
Senator Lyda Green moved to adopt the committee substitute,
SB 97 Version "K", as a Workdraft. There was no objection
and it was adopted.
Senator Pete Kelly offered a motion to report from
committee CS SB 97 Version "K" with individual
recommendations and accompanying fiscal note. Without
objection, it was so ordered.
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 112(HES)
"An Act relating to a program of postsecondary
education for high school students."
This was the first hearing for this bill in the Senate
Finance Committee.
Senator KIM ELTON, sponsor, testified that the bill would
give high school students and families new academic options
at no cost. The bill was termed "The Running Start
Education Program". In this program, 11th and 12th grade
high school students will get dual credit for courses taken
at a publicly funded Alaska college or vocational school.
These credits would apply toward both the high school and
college (or vocational school) graduation requirements. The
tuition fees would be paid by the student's home school
district.
Senator Kim Elton suggested that this concept is not
unusual; twenty other jurisdictions had similar programs
and SB 112 is based on a Washington State program. He noted
that other states require the families pay the tuition
costs rather than the school districts.
Senator Kim Elton testified to the benefits of the Running
Start Program. The program would expand course options
beyond what is available at the participating student's
high school. He stressed that this was especially valuable
for gifted and talented students.
Senator Kim Elton added that the program would also provide
opportunities to enroll in technical courses, which is good
for those students not on the academic tract. The technical
courses could help get those students ready to enter the
work world.
Senator Kim Elton pointed out the 2.75 grade point average
eligibility requirement for the program, and indicated that
there is a provision allowing school administrators to
waive the stipulation for certain students. The waiver is
important to allow some students, who are not planning to
pursue a college degree, to obtain vocational training. He
also noted that the participants would have to be students
"in good standing" at the school district where they are
enrolled.
Senator Kim Elton explained that the participating students
would be responsible for applying and gaining acceptance
into a college or vocational school. The student and the
student's family would decide which courses to take. He
commented that in other states with similar programs,
participating students usually took two or three courses.
Senator Kim Elton explained that in the program proposed in
SB 112, once the student successfully completed the college
or vocational technical school course, the student would
receive both college and high school credit. The amount of
the high school credit awarded to the student would be
determined by the high school administration. The student's
high school would submit the tuition and lab fees to the
college or vocational school. The student would pay for
books and supplies and retain ownership.
Senator Kim Elton disclosed that students who were enrolled
full-time in high school would not be provided tuition
reimbursement for college or vocational courses under this
bill.
Senator Kim Elton noted that the fiscal note was not based
on any cost or result from this bill. He remarked that the
fiscal note reflects the possibility that some high school
students would purposely fail the graduation exit exam in
order to remain a high school student and continue earning
college credits at the school district's expense. He
believed that scenario was only a remote possibility
because of the bill's provision that the program is only
available to students in good standing and because the
school district could make that good standing
determination. He surmised that a school district could
find that a student who fails the exit exam is not in good
standing. He suggested someone from the Department of
Education could speak more directly to the fiscal note.
Senator Gary Wilken referred to AS 14.30.780(a), page 3
line 6 of the committee substitute that prohibited school
districts from paying postsecondary course costs for full-
time secondary school students. He wanted to know how the
sponsor defined "full-time secondary student" and suggested
the Committee incorporate a definition into the language of
the bill. Senator Kim Elton answered that a full-time
secondary student is a student who attends high school for
a "normal school day". He stressed that it was important to
let the school district define full-time secondary student,
since each school district operated under different
circumstances.
In answering Senator Gary Wilken's next question, Senator
Kim Elton said correspondence students qualify as full-time
students if the correspondence program is provided by a
school district within the state.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the educational funding
allocation for a participating student would be granted to
the college or vocational school where the student was
taking courses rather than to the school district.
Senator Kim Elton explained that the school district would
pay for courses taken by the part-time high school students
of that district. Tuition costs average $73 per credit
hour.
Senator Kim Elton noted that the participating post-
secondary schools must be publicly funded. A private
flying school does not qualify. He also stressed that
participating students must meet the requirements of the
college or vocational school they wish to attend.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the adoption of this bill
would require school districts to transport students to
postsecondary classes. He referred to special education
programs that require school districts to provide
additional transportation. Senator Kim Elton said the bill
specifically dictates that the student is responsible for
transportation plus any extra fees involved in the
postsecondary courses.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked about the impact the Running
Start Program would have on the TEK PREP program in his
district that actively solicits high school students to
take college courses for secondary school credit. Senator
Kim Elton replied that language had been added to SB 112
specifying that nothing in the bill would prohibit school
districts and postsecondary institutions from entering into
arrangements similar to the Kenai Peninsula program. He
said he was continuing to work with school districts to
ensure the bill does not preclude school districts'
innovative programs.
Senator Randy Phillips remarked that the Anchorage School
District felt this program was an unfunded mandate.
As Co-Chair John Torgerson understood, the intent of the
bill is to use a part of the per-student formula funds that
presumably would be leftover since the student does not
attend the secondary school on a full-time basis and
therefore incur the full cost to educate. He did not agree
that SB 112 is an unfunded mandate.
Senator Kim Elton agreed with the co-chair. He pointed out
that there are some students who do not attend any classes
at the high school and yet the school district receives
full funding for those students. He said that an argument
could be made that the post-secondary campus should receive
all of the funds if that is were the student attends
classes. However, many of these students still receive
school district support by way of counseling and other
services and are eligible to participate in extracurricular
activities and the district should be compensated.
Senator Kim Elton stated that "there was no net loss to
education under this program." He explained that the funds
would not be removed from the education component, simply
shifted from a secondary to a postsecondary level of
education.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if there were limitations on
the types of post secondary courses that would qualify for
the program. He gave an example of a pottery class and
wanted to know if graduation credits would be given for
those types of classes. Senator Kim Elton answered that was
possible but noted that the high school would have the
authority to determine credit allocations for courses.
Senator Kim Elton stated that this bill would allow a
student in good standing to take a course at a university
that was also offered at the high school, such as French I.
This would allow the student to obtain college credit as
well as high school graduation credit. He surmised that a
student could fulfill the requirements of their first year
in college before graduating from high school. He spoke of
the financial benefits this would have to families.
Senator Dave Donley relayed how during his senior year at
Diamond High School, he took university courses in lieu of
high school courses. He worked a summer job to pay for the
post secondary courses, and didn't expect anyone else to
pay for them. He supported this on-going program of
allowing dual credit. However, this bill expects the
school district to pay the tuition, which he disagreed with
and he believed that the individual student should be
responsible for the cost. He noted that the Anchorage
school district opposed the bill and he felt it places a
burden on the district.
Senator Dave Donley argued that the costs to school
districts would not go down because the courses would still
need to be maintained for those who might fail a university
class and return to the high school for that class. The
school district could not anticipate the need for the
classes and would have to continue providing them. He
stressed that it was the student's right to take the high
school class. He also noted that there would still be
expenses to the high school for services provided to the
students.
Senator Lyda Green referred to language on page 3 line 2 of
the committee substitute that stipulated that the post
secondary school cannot charge a fee for the award of
college credit when high school credit is also granted.
Senator Kim Elton explained that this was a simple
provision to prohibit a double charge to both the school
district and the student.
EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section, Education
Support Services, Department of Education told the
Committee that the department had already testified in
support of the concept.
Eddy Jeans said he was present to discuss the fiscal note.
The indeterminate amount notation was due to language on
page 2 line 18 of the committee substitute that stipulated
that a student who completed the course requirement for
high school graduation but had not yet received a diploma
can participate in the Running Start program. Students who
do not pass the high school graduation qualification exam
will be permitted to continue in the public school system
up until the age of twenty, with the normal graduation age
being eighteen. Under this provision, a student who
intentionally fails the exam could exploit the program for
up to two years of college courses.
Senator Lyda Green suggested a stipulation requiring that a
student who failed the exam and had a grade point average
that was above a certain level shall be eliminated from the
program. She stated that she did not support the bill, but
thought this might be a way to avoid the potential
exploitation reflected in the fiscal note. Eddy Jeans
responded that a student could have a 4.0 grade point
average and still fail the graduation exam.
Co-Chair John Torgerson didn't have any correspondence from
school districts relating to the bill and wanted to know if
the department had received feedback. Eddy Jeans replied
that the department had not.
Senator Randy Phillips knew that the Anchorage School
District opposed the bill.
Senator Dave Donley asked if the department actively
solicited input from local school districts on this
legislation. Eddy Jeans answered that the department had
not. Senator Dave Donley expounded on his opinions of the
Department of Education. He thought that before the
department voiced support of the concept of the bill, it
should have consulted with local school districts.
Co-Chair John Torgerson ordered the bill held in committee.
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 40(FIN) am
"An Act merging certain departments in the executive
branch of state government; changing the names of
certain departments in the executive branch of state
government; transferring duties among departments and
offices in the executive branch of state government;
providing that certain discretionary duties formerly
performed by the Department of Community and Regional
Affairs are mandatory in the department to which those
duties are transferred; relating to the licensing of
child care facilities; relating to the division of
vocational rehabilitation; relating to the Alaska
Human Resource Investment Council; adjusting the
membership of certain multi-member bodies; providing
that a certain commissioner may designate department
employees to serve in the commissioner's place on a
board, council, or similar entity; providing for
advice to be given by a department head to the
governor and other commissioners on the delivery of
government services to rural areas and providing for
recommendations to be made to the governor and other
commissioners by that same commissioner about policy
changes that would affect rural governments and rural
affairs; relating to the federal community development
quota program; eliminating references to the division
of tourism; eliminating a reference to manpower
training programs; eliminating references to the
director and deputy director of international trade;
eliminating the requirement for a local advisory
committee for consideration of rural electrification
loans; and providing for an effective date."
This was the first hearing for this bill before the Senate
Finance Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, sponsor of the bill testified.
With the current difficult financial situation, he felt the
legislature needs a more creative approach to address the
budget beyond simply making cuts. He thought the
legislature should look further to find more efficient ways
to deliver programs.
HB 40 combines the Department of Community and Regional
Affairs and the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development into one department titled the Department of
Community and Economic Development. According to
Representative Vic Kohring, both departments have similar
missions to implement programs that encourage economic
development. He stated that by combining the departments,
the state would realize cost savings while maintaining the
same level of service.
Representative Vic Kohring referred to an organizational
chart that was before the members. The chart shows the
placement of various programs under the proposed
configuration of HB 40. He noted that the Department of
Administration, Department of Labor, the Department of
Health and Social Services and the Office of the Governor
are also impacted by the legislation.
Two programs currently under the Department of
Administration, the Capital Matching Grants (Incorporated)
program and the Municipal Grants program, would move to the
Department of Community and Economic Development.
The Department of Labor will become the Department of Labor
and Workforce Development and gain five programs. These
programs were: the Adult Basic Education and the Vocational
Rehabilitation programs currently in the Department of
Education; the Job Training Partnership Act and the State
Training and Employment Program currently in the Department
of Community and Regional Affairs and the Alaska Human
Resource Investment Council currently in the Office of the
Governor.
The Department of Education will become the Department of
Education and Child Development and incorporate four
additional programs. Programs moving from Department of
Community and Regional Affairs are Head Start, ChildCare
Pass II, III and Day Care Assistance. The Licensing of
ChildCare Facilities would move from the Department of
Health and Social Services to the Department of Education
and Child Development.
Representative Vic Kohring told the Committee that Senator
Pete Kelly had initiated the concept of reorganizing
programs four years ago with different legislation.
Representative Vic Kohring said he and Senator Pete Kelly
have worked together since then to streamline the concept
into HB 40. Representative Vic Kohring pointed out there
had been substantial hearings over the years on the matter
and that an argument could not be made that the process was
being rushed.
Representative Vic Kohring stressed the main purpose of HB
40 to save money year after year. He added that programs
will be delivered with much greater efficiency. He thought
this legislation places programs into departments in a
logical manner for budget planning.
Representative Vic Kohring then listed features of the
legislation. One feature is to streamline bureaucracy by
eliminating a commissioner's office and creating a new
agency that will cost less to operate.
Another feature of the bill is to protect the integrity of
programs to the benefit of rural communities, according to
Representative Vic Kohring. He surmised that because the
programs will cost less to operate, they would be less
likely to suffer budget cuts.
Representative Vic Kohring stated that as a result of
placing the economic development programs together into the
new department, there would be a greater focus on economic
development in the state.
Representative Vic Kohring said the new department creates
a one-stop shopping center.
He brought the Committee's attention to another handout
that showed nine economic development programs saying it
was strong justification for this bill in that it pointed
out similarities between the Department of Commerce and
Economic Development and the Department of Community and
Regional Affairs. He hoped that over time when the
legislation was implemented the two agencies would be
blended and would operate with less overhead.
Representative Vic Kohring stated that there would be
future savings beyond what was reflected in the fiscal
note. The Administration would be responsible for achieving
those savings.
Another feature of the bill was that it ensures that local
government assistance will continue, according to
Representative Vic Kohring. The bill enhances
infrastructure planning and the state's economic
development strategy.
Representative Vic Kohring said the bottom line was that
the bill puts the State Of Alaska "on a path to smaller and
smarter government."
Representative Vic Kohring told the Committee that great
effort was put into selecting the new department names. He
said there was a concern that one of the agencies was being
eliminated when actually only the name was going away.
Representative Vic Kohring referred to another handout that
addressed the benefits to rural Alaska. He wanted to
alleviate concerns that the bill would be detrimental to
rural communities. The purpose of HB 40 was strictly
economically related, he stressed and would unify scoping
and planning assistance, infrastructure construction and
financial assistance into one department.
Representative Vic Kohring intended that the budget
subcommittees of both the House of Representatives and the
Senate would evaluate the results of the reorganization in
the next year and locate additional savings potential. The
evaluation was not dictated in the bill, but he expected it
would occur.
Representative Vic Kohring said that there was concern that
this new department would become a mega-agency. However, he
claimed, the department would employ approximately 450
people and would be the fourth smallest agency in state
government. Another concern was that additional
responsibility would be placed on existing personnel.
Representative Vic Kohring did not believe that would
happen with the exception of additional oversight by the
new commissioner's office.
Great care was taken when drafting the bill to ensure
federal funds were not jeopardized, according to
Representative Vic Kohring.
Representative Vic Kohring then read excerpts from two
letters in support of the legislation written by people
formally involved with the affected agencies. The first
was from Don Tanner, former Deputy Commissioner of the
Department of Community and Regional Affairs. His letter
stated that HB 40 is a smart way to cut government,
eliminate unnecessary overhead and allow one department to
be responsible for improving the state's economy. It also
stated that the legislation would increase efficiencies and
greatly enhance economic growth in rural areas.
Paul Fuhs, former Commissioner of the Department of
Community and Economic Development under the Hickel
Administration wrote the second letter. It stated that
combining the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development and the Department of Community and Regional
Affairs would create a more effective program. The letter
also referred to complaints received from participants who
felt they were bounced from agency to agency when trying to
access services.
Representative Vic Kohring summarized his testimony saying
that the legislation streamlines government, protects
important programs and provides better service for the
public by delivering services for less money.
Senator Pete Kelly noted the bill proposed moving the Head
Start and the Day Care Assistance programs to the
Department of Education and asked if feedback on this was
received during hearings in previous committees. MIKE
KRIEBER, staff to Representative Vic Kohring, answered that
the original bill moved the two programs to the Department
of Health and Social Services. The intent of the move was
to combine those programs into one. In working with the
Administration it was determined that the programs would be
best served under the Department of Education, according to
Mike Krieber.
Senator Loren Leman wanted to know how the other new
department names had been conceived. Representative Vic
Kohring replied the Administration recommended the names
and he thought it didn't matter what the departments were
called so long as they reflected the goals laid out in this
legislation.
Senator Al Adams appreciated the consideration given to
rural communities. He wanted to know why the Municipal
Grants program and the Capital Matching Grants program
should be moved from the Department of Administration since
they were already small and efficiently run operations.
Representative Vic Kohring responded that it would be
better to have the programs in the new department because
they were already administered through the Department of
Community and Economic Development but funded through the
Department of Administration. The change would eliminate
the extra step involved with the funding allocation.
Senator Al Adams hoped the personnel who currently operated
the grants programs would be transferred to the new
department since they knew the system.
Senator Al Adams referred to the boards and commissions
attached to the three affected agencies. He pointed out the
elimination of two seats on the Power Project Loan
Committee and wanted to know the reason for the reduction
and if other boards or commissions are similarly changed.
Representative Vic Kohring responded the change was made to
the bill with an amendment in the House Finance Committee.
Mike Krieber explained that the board had seats for the
commissioners of the Department of Community and Regional
Affairs and the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development. With the combination of the two agencies and
elimination of one of the commissioner positions, only one
department representative seat is needed. That left the
board with an even number of seats. To balance the board
for voting purposes, one of the public member seats is also
eliminated.
Mike Krieber continued by saying that the Alaska Coastal
Policy Council along with other miscellaneous boards will
have a reduction of one seat to reflect the combination of
the two commissioner's offices. The Oil and Gas Policy
Committee is one of several other boards that increases its
membership to include the commissioner of the Department of
Revenue.
Senator Gary Wilken referred to the sponsor's cost savings
handout showing savings of $970,000 and to the fiscal note
showing a saving of only $355,000 and wanted the sponsor to
reconcile the differences. Representative Vic Kohring
suspected that when the legislation is implemented, the
actual savings would be somewhere between the two analyses.
He felt there are other areas of potential savings that are
not listed on either analysis such as the elimination of
additional positions. For example, he thought the director
position for the current Division of Community and Regional
Development is no longer needed because the childcare and
job training programs will be transferred from the
Department of Community and Regional Affairs and the
Department of Community and Economic Development.
Senator Gary Wilken commented on the department name
changes, saying he felt there could be some confusion with
the similar acronyms of the new names and existing
department names.
Senator Loren Leman wanted to see department titles as
short as feasible and to reflect the functions of the
department.
Tape: SFC - 99 #133, Side B 6:23 PM
Senator Loren Leman continued pointing out that three
departments end with "Development". His desire was to make
the titles as simple as possible.
Senator Al Adams asked how the four components shown on the
handout titled "Benefits to Rural Alaska" increase
efficiencies or enhance economic development in rural
Alaska. Representative Vic Kohring responded that the new
agency focuses entirely on economic development by
extracting non-economic development programs to the
Department of Education and the Department of Labor where
they are more appropriate. As far as efficiencies,
Representative Vic Kohring thought that if the economic
development programs were under one roof, then when a
community leader seeks funding or loan programs they only
have to make one phone call. He hoped that in blending the
programs together, there would be less need for expensive
overhead in office space, employees and equipment.
Representative Vic Kohring hoped that in time, all the
related programs would blend together.
Co-Chair John Torgerson wanted to know if this bill made
any substantial changes to statute. Representative Vic
Kohring qualified that he knew the legislation was
intimidating but that it only shuffles programs and repeals
unnecessary statutes. He pointed out that Manpower Training
Program, which the Administration currently did not
operate, is eliminated in statute at the Governor's
request.
Representative Vic Kohring noted the presence of
Representative Gene Therriault who contributed greatly to
the legislation.
Senator Randy Phillips was concerned about the fiscal note
and the differences between it and the sponsor's analysis.
Representative Vic Kohring noted the Administration
anticipated it would cost $200,000 to implement the bill,
which he thought was reasonable considering the major
restructuring. As far as the projected savings,
Representative Vic Kohring believed there was simply a
difference of opinion between himself and the
Administration.
Senator Randy Phillips said the real question was who
handled the merger, the Administration or the Legislature.
Representative Vic Kohring said all involved parties would
watch the process. He repeated details of particular
positions and programs he felt could be combined or
eliminated.
Senator Randy Phillips commented about a past executive
order to combine public works and public highways into the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities. He
expected there were many more employees and a larger budget
since that merger twenty years ago. He did not know if
greater savings and more efficient delivery of services
were the result.
Representative Vic Kohring hoped to use HB 40 as a model
for the future. He had been working on the bill for four
years and plans to monitor the success rate once it passes
into law. He said he intends to determine where cost
saving is realized and where additional savings can be
addressed. Additional legislation could be considered for
future adjustments, he added. He also hopes the budget
subcommittees will watch the progress.
Senator Al Adams wanted to know if the plan is to eliminate
the municipal revenue sharing programs. Representative Vic
Kohring answered that it is not.
Senator Al Adams then asked if moving the Power Cost
Equalization program to AIDEA had been considered. Mike
Krieber said it was discussed. AIDEA is currently in the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development and will be
moved into the new department along with the energy
programs currently in the Department of Community and
Regional Affairs.
Senator Gary Wilken asked if there would be public
testimony in this committee. He was interested in hearing
comments on the movement of education programs. Co-Chair
John Torgerson noted that no one was signed up but could
speak if they chose.
Senator Randy Phillips asked if it wouldn't be better to
combine this bill with a fiscal plan for implementation
rather than adopt this bill and worry about implementation
next session. Senator Lyda Green commented that the Senate
Finance Committee is the proper forum to do so. Senator
Randy Phillips stressed the fiscal implementation direction
was the missing link.
Representative Vic Kohring responded that he had made
significant accomplishment in coming to agreement with the
Administration. He noted that originally the Administration
calculated a cost of $1.6 million to implement the bill and
that he was pleased the cost had been brought down. He was
disappointed with the elimination of some positions.
Ultimately, he felt a delicate balancing act was achieved.
KAREN REHFELD, Department of Education came to the table at
the request of Senator Gary Wilken. He wanted to know the
comfort level of the department taking on the duties of
childcare. Karen Rehfeld said there would be a number of
responsibilities added to the Department of Education
including the Daycare Assistance Program, Child Care Pass
II and III, Head Start, Childcare Licensing and some
research programs. The department did have some concerns
since these are new areas. The department understands the
role of quality childcare development in the child's
ability to learn once they enter the school system.
Karen Rehfeld said the Department of Education has ongoing
discussions with the Department of Health and Social
Services and the Department of Community and Regional
Affairs who are willing to assist in the transfer of the
programs.
Senator Gary Wilken wanted to know if there was any
indication that the preschool program operations would be
different than K-12. Karen Rehfeld replied that the
licensing of childcare facilities was the area of greatest
concern because of the difficulty to implement by the
effective date of the bill. Currently, the Department of
Health and Social Services combines the childcare licensing
functions with licensing of foster care. To split the
functions will take longer than the July 1, 1999 date in
the bill. An amendment was made in the House of
Representatives to delay the effective date of to July 1,
2000.
Karen Rehfeld voiced concerns that the Department of
Education's current resources is not adequate to cover the
costs of preschool certification. A proposal before the
Conference Committee on the FY00 Operating Budget would
eliminate all general funding for that component.
Senator Gary Wilken wanted to follow the progress of the
new Department of Education and Childhood Development. He
referred to page 9 line 23 of the House Finance Committee
substitute that granted the department the ability to issue
a variance of up to two years for a childcare center. He
wanted to speak further to the witness at a later time on
this matter.
Co-Chair John Torgerson noted a proposed committee
substitute, SCS CS HB 40 (FIN) 1-LS0056/N 5/11/99, before
the members for consideration. Senator Lyda Green moved for
adoption as a Workdraft. Senator Al Adams and Co-Chair John
Torgerson objected.
Senator Lyda Green detailed the changes proposed in Version
"N". The duties of regulating meat, poultry, dairy products
and livestock are transferred from the Department of
Environmental Conservation to the Department of Natural
Resources Division of Agriculture. Senator Lyda Green
stated the Division of Agriculture is the typical division
of oversight for these programs in most other states.
The management of pesticides will also transfer from the
Department of Environmental Conservation to the Department
of Natural Resources Division of Agriculture under the
proposed committee substitute Version "N". Senator Lyda
Green explained the lack of a fee structure imposed on
manufacturers of pesticides and fertilizers imported to the
state and her intent to establish a system in the future.
CS HB 40 Version "N" creates a new Division of Safety
Inspections within the Department of Public Safety to
operate the Alaska Occupational Safety and Health program
and perform safety inspections currently managed by the
Department of Labor. The Alaska Safety Advisory Council
will also transfer to the Division of Safety Inspections.
The licensing and issuance of and certificates of fitness
will be consolidated into the Division Occupational
Licensing in the new Department of Community and Economic
Development. The Alaska Labor Relations Agency will
transfer from the Department of Labor to the Department of
Administration.
Co-Chair John Torgerson clarified the committee substitute
makes no substantive changes to the law; only shifted
programs to different agencies.
Senator Pete Kelly wanted to hear from the sponsor on the
proposed committee substitute Version "N". Co-Chair John
Torgerson noted the sponsor did not have a copy of the
committee substitute.
Senator Al Adams asked Senator Lyda Green if impact
statements were received from each of the affected
agencies. Co-Chair John Torgerson said it was his intent if
the committee substitute Version "N" was adopted HB 40
would be heard later in the week after department impact
statements were submitted.
AT EASE 6:46PM / 6:47PM
Senator Lyda Green removed her motion to adopt SCS CS HB 40
1-LS0056/N 5/11/99. Co-Chair John Torgerson announced that
the committee substitute will be distributed and the
departments given an opportunity to comment.
Co-Chair John Torgerson ordered HB 40 held in committee.
AT EASE 6:48PM / 7:03PM
Co-Chair John Torgerson announced SB 113 would not be heard
this meeting.
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 94(HES)
"An Act relating to the medical use of marijuana; and
providing for an effective date."
Senator Loren Leman, sponsor of the bill, explained this
legislation was before the Committee as a result of the
ballot measure voters adopted in the last election to
legalize the use of marijuana for medical treatment. He
became aware of problems with enforcement of the new law by
the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Law.
He stressed this bill does not repeal the initiative, only
provided definition so the law can be enacted as intended.
Senator Loren Leman believed "there was a massive campaign
of misinformation" involved in the development of this
legislation. He added that fortunately, a representative of
the Alaskans for Medical Rights organization came the table
to work constructively with the Administration and himself.
The agreements reached are reflected in the Senate Health
and Social Services committee substitute, 1-LS0524/M, and
meet most of the requirements of the sponsor, the
Administration and the medical marijuana organization.
Senator Loren Leman said amendments were before the
Committee that will provide further clarification to the
bill.
Senator Loren Leman noted Senator Al Adams submitted
several amendments, some of which were identical to ones he
submitted. Senator Loren Leman supported those identical
amendments.
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Office of the
Commissioner, Department of Health and Social Services,
came to the table. He testified that because the statute to
legalize medical use of marijuana was passed by the voters,
the department had no opportunity to secure funding for the
new program. An increment was added to the FY00 Operating
Budget under the Bureau of Vital Statistics component for
approximately $73,000 for one staff position to operate the
registry, produce identification cards and operate the
program. That component was not approved in either the
House or the Senate Finance Committee budgets noted Elmer
Lindstrom. Therefore, the fiscal note reflected the
department's reassessment of the amount needed to operate
the program. Elmer Lindstrom added that this legislation
would add to the department's responsibility even though
the amount of the fiscal note is less than originally
requested in the FY00 operating budget.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if the department supported
the legislation. Elmer Lindstrom answered that the
Administration supported clarification of the ballot
measure. The Department of Health and Social Services' only
concerns were to avoid a great administrative burden and to
draft enforcement guidelines that do not hamper the
confidentiality relationship between physicians and
patients. The department would defer to the Department of
Law and the Department of Public Safety on the questions of
enforcement legality.
Co-Chair John Torgerson wanted to know if the committee
substitute changed the ballot measure beyond technical
clarifications. Elmer Lindstrom replied that he was not
the best person to answer the question. He noted that the
Department of Law does not think the bill was a repeal of
the initiative or goes beyond the ability granted to the
Legislature to amend an initiative.
DAVID FINKLESTEIN of Alaskans for Medical Rights testified.
He believed it was important to note that when the bill was
first introduced, his organization felt it essentially
repealed the proposition. The organization took a defensive
posture on the legislation because it felt affected
patients would not be able to take advantage of the law to
allow medical marijuana use, according to David
Finklestein. He added that the sponsor and the
Administration have since made a good effort to address the
public's concerns.
However, the organization still had some concerns with the
committee substitute.
David Finklestein stressed that the committee substitute is
not simply a technical change to the ballot initiative, it
is much larger. The mandatory registration requirement
requested by law enforcement is not the intent of the
initiative, according to David Finklestein. The ballot
measure offered voluntary registration for those patients
wanting protection under the law. David Finklestein
stressed that if this bill passes, it will be the first
state of those with medical marijuana laws to impose
mandatory registration requirements. SB 94 also contains
restrictions on the amount of marijuana a patient can
possess and stipulates that a patient must prove a more
serious condition to possess a greater amount. A provision
in the bill restricts caregivers as well, David Finklestein
stated.
David Finklestein concluded by stressing that Alaskans for
Medical Rights still had major concerns with the bill but
noted that the sponsor had done much to address those
concerns.
Senator Gary Wilken moved for adoption of Amendment #1. Co-
Chair John Torgerson objected for explanation. Senator
Gary Wilken explained that during the Senate Health and
Social Services Committee hearing on the bill, a draft
version contained a provision stating that a person using
medical marijuana must visit a physician at least once
every three months. The current version of the bill, CS SS
SB 94 (HES) 1-LS0524/M, allowed the patient to visit a
physician only once, obtain a prescription for marijuana,
and not be required to have follow-up visits for renewed
prescriptions. Senator Gary Wilken felt that provision was
too liberal. Amendment #1 requires a patient to visit a
physician in person at least once a year.
Senator Loren Leman noted he had no objection to the
amendment.
Senator Gary Wilken asked for David Finklestein's comments
on the amendment. David Finklestein concurred with the
first two sections of the amendment requiring documentation
from the physician, but felt the last section, requiring
annual visits to a physician, places a burden on those
living in rural areas away from health care facilities.
Under this amendment, the patient is required to submit
annual documentation from the physician stating that the
condition is still present. Therefore, David Finklestein
felt that because many conditions are ongoing and not
curable, the doctor visits might not have any other benefit
than to satisfy this statue.
Without objection, Amendment #1 was adopted.
Senator Al Adams moved for adoption of Amendment #2. Co-
Chair John Torgerson objected for explanation. Senator Al
Adams explained the current committee substitute requires a
physician to provide the Department of Health and Social
Services with a list of the patient's symptoms. He believed
there was no reason this confidential information should be
provided to the department, and noted the department does
not plan to include this information in a patients
registration records.
Senator Loren Leman pointed out the reason for the
provision to require a list of the patient's symptoms is to
reduce the chances of fraud. However, he concluded that
because the list of symptoms would be generic, including
pain, nausea, etc., it would probably become useless
information. He had no objection to the adoption of the
amendment.
Without objection, Amendment #2 was adopted.
Senator Al Adams moved for adoption of Amendment #3.
Senator Lyda Green objected for explanation. Senator Al
Adams explained that this amendment relates to existing
exceptions stipulating that a primary caregiver can serve
more than one patient as directed in the ballot initiative.
The current committee substitute only allows for caregivers
that live in the same household as the patient and are
related by blood or marriage. This amendment allows a
caregiver to serve more than one patient who is a family
member, even if they live in a different household.
Senator Loren Leman stated that in the interest of working
with the Administration, he concluded that this amendment
is a provision he can accept.
There was no objection and Amendment #3 was adopted.
Senator Al Adams moved for adoption of Amendment #4. Co-
Chair John Torgerson objected for explanation. Senator Al
Adams explained this amendment includes another exemption
by giving the Department of Health and Social Services
discretion to allow a caregiver to serve more than one
patient to avoid unnecessary hardship.
Senator Loren Leman pointed out that in previous testimony,
the Department of Law has stated opposition to this
amendment because it does not provide specific guidelines.
Without direction in statute, this would become a
meaningless provision, according to Department of Law
testimony given in earlier hearings. Senator Loren Leman
was not opposed to crafting guidelines for the Department
of Health and Social Services, but had been unable to
accomplish that to date. He believed it could be done over
the interim.
Senator Al Adams asked if David Finklestein had discussed
this matter with the Department of Law. David Finklestein
answered that this amendment was at the suggestion of the
Department of Health and Social Services to assist in
administration of the current program. He said the intent
is that this exemption will be for the rare occurrences of
patients in a hospice program or other unique situations of
having more than one caregiver.
MIKE POLLY, staff to Senator Loren Leman stated that the
issue had been raised with the Department of Law. That
department argued the importance of maintaining a one-to-
one relationship between the patient and the primary
caregiver and supported a provision allowing each patient
only one caregiver and each caregiver only one patient. The
problem with the multiple patient exception, according to
Mike Polly, is the creation of a financial incentive to
caregivers profiting from the sale of marijuana to a
multiple number of patients. This has been a problem in
other states with medical marijuana laws. The Department of
Law surmised that unless there are detailed guidelines
allowing when the exemptions are appropriate, the
Department of Health and Social Services will simply
"rubber stamp" exemptions.
Senator Al Adams wanted to hear from the Department of
Health and Social Services. Elmer Lindstrom said this
language was substantially similar to the initiative
language and to the regulations adopted after public
review. He detailed the situations of specialized
caregivers that the Bureau of Vital Statistics anticipated
granting hardship exemptions for. He acknowledged the
concerns of the Department of Law and the Department of
Public Safety of multiple caregivers serving multiple
patients.
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked that if this amendment failed
to pass would the department simply implement the similar
regulations. Elmer Lindstrom responded that no, the
regulations would not include exemptions.
Tape: SFC - 99 #134, Side A 7:26PM
[Tape malfunction]
Senator Gary Wilken opposed the amendment
Amendment #4 failed to be adopted by a vote of 1-8. Senator
Al Adams voted in favor.
Amendment #5 was not offered because it was the same as
Amendment #2.
Amendment #6 was the same as Amendment #3 and also was not
offered.
Senator Loren Leman moved to adopt Amendment #7. Co-Chair
John Torgerson objected. Mike Polly explained the amendment
deletes language from the committee substitute that
required the patient to prove any marijuana found in
possession to be strictly for the treatment of the
prescribed medical condition. He said there had been a
great deal of feedback in opposition to this provision
because of the need to prove a "double negative." The
patient is being asked to prove the marijuana is not used
for a non-medical purpose.
Mike Polly consulted with the Department of Law, who did
not agree with the double negative interpretation, but
indicated that AS 11.71.090(a)(2) as proposed in CS SS SB
94 (HES), containing this provision, is superfluous because
of the provision in paragraph 3 of the same statute. AS
11.71.090(a)(3) prohibits the manufacture, delivery or
possession of marijuana for purposes other than medical
use, which accomplishes the same objective as proposed in
paragraph 2.
Amendment #7 was adopted by a vote of 8-1. Senator Al Adams
cast the nay vote.
Senator Loren Leman moved for adoption of Amendment #8. Co-
Chair John Torgerson objected for explaination. Mike Polly
explained that in the original version of SB 94, language
was included to clarify that the possession limit of one
ounce/six plant of marijuana applied collectively to both
the patient and the primary caregiver. This provision was
inadvertently omitted in the Senate Health and Social
Services committee substitute and brought to the sponsor's
attention by the Department of Law, according to Mike
Polly. By inserting "in the aggregate" after "possess" on
page 11 line 10 of the committee substitute, this amendment
will reinsert the collective possession limit for both the
patient and the caregiver.
Without objection, Amendment #8 was adopted.
Senator Loren Leman moved for adoption of Amendment #9. Co-
Chair John Torgerson objected for explaination. Mike Polly
explained the amendment changes the circumstances under
which law enforcement will have access to information in
the registry of marijuana patients. Currently, the
committee substitute allows law enforcement access in the
course of any criminal investigation. This issue had been
the subject of controversy in previous hearings because of
the relatively unlimited access, according to Mike Polly.
The amendment stipulates law enforcement only has access to
the registration records during the course of a criminal
investigation of an individual suspected of a violation of
AS 11.71, AS 17.30 or AS 17.37, the statutes that address
controlled substances.
Amendment #9 was adopted without objection.
Senator Al Adams noted that he had three amendments he
would not offer at this time. He hoped the sponsor would
work with Alaskans for Medical Rights to address the items
in these amendments. If a compromise is reached, the
amendments could be offered on the Senate floor, Senator Al
Adams said.
Senator Dave Donley felt this legislation is a good
product. He thought the statute is necessary to implement
the ballot initiative. The sponsor, the Department of
Public Safety and the Department of Law put a lot of work
into the bill, stated Senator Dave Donley.
Senator Loren Leman echoed Senator Dave Donley's comments.
He appreciated the assistance and the expertise of the
Administration with this bill.
Senator Loren Leman offered a motion to report CS SB 97
(FIN) from committee with individual recommendations and
accompanying fiscal note. There was no objection and it was
so ordered.
HB 209 was not heard because the teleconference link was
interrupted.
Co-Chair John Torgerson announced the Senate Finance
Committee would hear HB 156, HB 68, HB 102, HB 157 and HB
217 the next day.
ADJOURNED
Senator Torgerson adjourned the meeting at 7:37PM.
SFC-99 (27) 5/11/99
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